live coverage here on c-span3. >> go vote and come back and hear the second panel and get as much information as we can. is it ok with you? the purpose of this hearing today is to shed a light on one of the problems associated with the ukraine-russia conflict.

we have disputes about land. we have disputes about the size of the ukrainian military. how big it should be, what capability should have. do we have nato-type troops make sure there is not an invasion. should there be a nato? sure they forever be barred? these are areas of dispute. one area of dispute looms large for all of us on this committee, republican and democrat. here is the dispute. our ukrainian allies claim 19,546 reports of unlawful deportation and forced transfer of children. the occupied areas of ukraine by russia. let me say this again. people in ukraine and

organizations are claiming that putin has separated over 19,000 ukrainian children from their families, trying to turn them into russians. how can you in the war -- end the war unless every child is accounted for? the purpose of this hearing is to make a record as to whether or not this claim is legitimate. i invited the russian ambassador. there is is table. it is small but that the best he can do -- we can do. he did not show up. this dispute needs to be defined and resolved. you cannot honorably end the conflict unless you account for every child taken by putin's russia from ukraine, period. i think it is very important that congress review what has been agreed to. that we have a say about is this

a good deal or bad deal. that if there is security guarantees, we see a we can find bipartisan support to make them continuing past the trump administration. those are two things very important to me. every child must be accounted for and congress needs to have a look at this deal if we can reach one. to the trump administration, thank you for trying to in the bloodbath. all of us know we will never get a perfect deal. there will be sacrifices made but one sacrifice we will not make is to give russia 19,000 ukrainian children. that is not a sacrifice i'm willing to make. and i doubt if anybody up here is willing to make that sacrifice. this is not about land. it's about families. it's about the very fabric of society. how would you feel if you're one of your children? would you want the world to do? i would want the world to get my kid back.

is that asking too much? i don't think so. as to our russian friends, they have 210 facilities people have identified. 39 sites where children go for direct military training. 130 sites that deal with reeducation, making them russian. i'm not making this up. this is 2025, knight 1945 -- not 1945. it needs to stop. russia pretty well denies everything. they provide -- refused to work with the u.n. they blocked monitoring. they have done nothing meaningful to resolve this issue. they are stonewalling is all. they are saying it does not exist. this was a chance for russia to tell its side of the story. they decided not to come.

this hearing is one of the most important things any of us will do in our time in the senate. and in the house. deliver justice to people who have other children kidnapped by a foreign power. we have legislation, senator blumenthal and myself, that would make russia's state sponsor of terrorism if we do not repatriate these children. one of the definitions, a section says kidnapping. this is kidnapping. we are trying to come together, all of us, to make russia a terrorist state because they are acting like terrorists and i hope we can move forward on that soon and hope we can find a way to in the bloodbath -- end of the bloodbath that are trying to do a right. we are trying to provide visibility to our european friends. have a hearing. get your parliaments together. let's work together hand in

hand. let's try to find a way to put maximum pressure on putin's russia to account for each child. every parliament should be doing what we are doing. everybody should be having hearings. we don't have a minute to delay. senator scott has been great to work with. this committee has been great to work with. we will introduce our first panel and thank you all. >> thank you very much for convening this hearing and for your leadership on this critical issue. the systematic abduction of ukrainian children by the russian government is a horrific tragedy for the thousands of families victimized by putin, but also an issue of global concern. in the senate, colleagues on both sides of been working to support efforts to track and return children and hold perpetrators accountable. the work continues and i hope today's discussion as to those efforts.

-- adds to those efforts. any peace plan that let's putin walk away with having illegally seized territory, kidnapped thousands of children and cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people on both sides with no consequences is unacceptable. it would set a very dangerous precedent for the world not to mention undermine future peace in the region. it is disappointing that the state department declined to participate in today's hearing but i hope the administration will be briefing us about these talks very soon. as i noted, there has been a bipartisan effort to address russia's mass production of ukrainian children. early this year the trump administration abruptly ended a contract to jeopardize the work to get critical data, including on abducted children to the ukrainian government and european law enforcement. it is one of the many instances where the administration has eliminated, undermined or disregarded bipartisan priorities that are under the

purview of this subcommittee and why it is so important we negotiate and enact a bipartisan state and foreign ops bill for the next fiscal year that is critical for protecting american interest through targeted security and economic assistance for key allies and partners like ukraine. to do that you need to restore transparency, strengthen the state department's workforce, heat our international commitments and ensure compliance with the law. we should not have to wonder whether funds are being spent as we intended or here secondhand the critical efforts we all supported are gone. i'm interested in hearing from eyewitnesses about what is required to return, we integrate and rehabilitate ukrainian children and how we can best help. i'm interested in how we can support law enforcement efforts, including national prosecutors and courts as well as the icc which has indicted putin for war crimes associated with the adduction of these children. i want to thank our witnesses

for their testimony and i look forward to the discussion. chair graham: chairwoman collins, thank you for coming. sen. collins:, thank you, mr. chairman. i want to commend you and the ranking member for shining a spotlight on a truly horrendous problem. i am happy to work with you in any way to send the strongest possible signal to president putin, to russia, that this is simply so wrong. it is a war crime. it is something that simply cannot be allowed to continue. thank you very much for your leadership and that of our witnesses today. chair graham: thank you very much, madam chairman. our colleagues, tita from the

house and two from the senate, republican democrats who have been deeply involved in this issue and every other issue related to putin's war in ukraine. i thought it would be good to hear from you because you have been leading on so many ways. senator blumenthal, we had a great relationship over this issue and is now time to get some bills passed. sen. blumenthal: thank you very much, chairman graham. i have been to ukraine eight times since the beginning of the war. most of the trips with you. some long overnight train rides and thank you for your leadership which has been truly historic without any exaggeration on this issue. i want to thank my colleague senator klobuchar for her leadership which has been really instrumental, in our house colleagues that are here, thank you. to the witnesses who will literally testify as to the

inhumanity and the criminality we see unfolding in the kidnapping of these children. it is more than a war crime. it is literally genocide. it is genocide because the ultimate goal of abducting these children is to erase the ukrainian identity. it is part of a strategic effort to erase the nation of ukraine from existence. putin tried it by conquering territory. he continues that effort. the attempted negotiations now ongoing in moscow, we wish them well but there is no sign of clear progress. therefore we need to move forward with our sanctions bill, with the designation of russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and an effort to use the seized

assets. i witnessed the ukrainian people and the brutal toll of putin's assault, the bombing and this was designed again to erase ukrainian damage the people of ukraine directly without any regard to the rules of war. i have spoken to those -- some of them, ukrainian children, who have been taken hostage. of all the moments in my life of this privilege of public service which we all have, this one will stay with me forever. talking to children about how they were declared orphans because the russians killed their parents. or simply abducted by russian soldiers. i cannot describe to you the absolute brutality and inhumanity with which they were treated.

10-month-old marguerite who was kidnapped by russians under the false pretense of medical examination and rehabilitation. her name and citizenship were changed in her birthplace was altered from ukraine to russia. in another case, a 16-year-old taken by russian soldiers to an orphanage where he said he slept "on sagging metal beds, no betting, just blankets, terrible sanitation everyday. we ate barley stew, strange compote and crackers." nine-year-old aaliyah lived with his mother in mariupol when the war began. "i love my school and my friends. we had a beautiful home." this mother was killed. in arussian missile strike he buried her in their backyard. he was transferred to a hospital

where he underwent surgery without anesthesia and was told by russian doctors he should not say glory to ukraine anymore. those are just a few of the stories having talked to some of these children. i think the people of the united states should know about these atrocities, the war crimes, genocide as part of a systematic deliberate effort to indoctrinate the children of ukraine with pro-russian ideologies and to delegitimize and deny their national identity. i was proud to join you, mr. chairman, and along with senator britt and senator klobuchar in introducing this legislation earlier this year that would designate russia as a state sponsor of terrorism. part of a very exclusive club, well-earned by russia and vladimir putin.

i want to thank all the members of the united states senate. i hope all the members. i challenge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to vote for this measure. if you are in possession of announce of humanity you will support this measure enthusiastically. -- an ounce of humanity. chair graham: senator klobuchar, the floor is yours. sen. klobuchar: thank you for leading the subcommittee that have been leaders on this issue. you cannot think of a better time for this hearing as the negotiations are ongoing and a mustang with ukraine and i appreciate both of your words. i returned from rome where 12 days ago i had the honor of joining the ukrainian delegation sent by president zelenskyy to

meet with pope leo at the vatican. i was there alongside maxine who will testify today. it is one thing to have the numbers we all use about the number of kids that are over there, some as old as teenagers and some as young as one-year-old, two years old, three years old. it's another to sit across the table from them and their families. i met sascho who was taken from his home after being wounded in a russian bombardment. at our breakfast he was there with his brave grandma lou mila who told me she eventually took matters into her own hands, this grandma, when he was able to get a cell phone and call her. she went into the occupied territory to rescue him. with the pope i stood next to veronica who was confined in russia against her will for both her 13th and 14th birthday's,

including periods of time in isolation before she managed to escape. these are tragic stories of childhoods forever changed by brutality. they are also stories of resilience and hope. the stories of the ukrainian people against all odds who have continued to stand up to the brutality of vladimir putin. veronica is a tending school again in kyiv, now in the 11th grade. to see her big smile when she met the pope and the tears coming out of her eyes as he gave her a rosary is something i will never forget. more than 1800 children have been returned, some of the help of the vatican. we were there to urge the pope to use his standing and strong moral authority in the world to help return more children through mediation. i believe the pope plays a critical role but in the end children should never be ponds in a war -- pawns in a war.

that is what we joined you on this important bill. we must know that you will hear today how the kids are being moved in russia 3200 sites thanks to the incredible detective work of the yale researchers led by nathaniel raymond who will testify today. his team has tracked the movements with biometrics, like. some kids don't even look like they go to when they were abducted because they were only babies. in addition to this important legislation you are talking about today that i hope advances to the senate, senator shaheen and i were discussing this. senator grassley and i have a bill we think all of you for supporting in the ndaa. that would authorize our federal agencies to continue supporting these tracking efforts. i want to thank representative fitzpatrick for co-leading the bipartisan companion legislation in the house and representative mccaul for leading a related resolution. the u.s. is not alone in this assisting ukraine with the tracking and recovery of children.

our allies are stepping up and in september, president zelenskyy announced a new initiative among several countries to share data and build up the capacity of ukraine's own law enforcement. we all must do our part. i am pleased that the first lady of melania trump joined us in this effort. in the end, if we just sell out on some kind of an agreement that is not only doth not bring the kids home but literally gives russia territory they don't even have right now, that is the message we are going to send to the world. chairman graham, i want to thank you for at this really important time having this hearing and let's get these kids home. thank you. chair graham: to show how important this is we let members of the house to come to the senate. [laughter] michael, europe. -- you are up. >> it is great to be in the house of lords. it took a while to walk over here. i want to thank you and the ranking member for holding this

important hearing and having us from the house who care about this issue deeply. we have been following this for quite some time. you are putting a spotlight on this. i can't say thank you enough. i agree with you. the peace talks going on right now, russia needs to understand these children must come home. they must be repatriated with their families. we need an ironclad security agreement, unlike the 1994 budapest agreement that did not have that. as i passed the wartime supplemental in the house, needs to pay for its own crimes in the rico act. i met with the ukraine investor yesterday. he showed me a video that save ukraine put together featuring these children and describing the russian atrocities. the russian federation has abducted at least 20,000 children that we know of. every expert i have talked to

believes the numbers are higher, much higher than that. they are also indoctrinating and militarizing ukrainian children in the occupied territories. possibly up to a million. according to the video, russia has allocated $7 billion in its budget for a national project titled youth and children, essentially militarized youth organizations. the ambassador told me that one million children live in the occupied territories. they are vulnerable to brainwashing and abuse in more than 43,000 have already enrolled in russia's paramilitary youth program. i think the most frightening to me is in these territories the textbooks spew false information and conspiracy theories about nato and the free world. all this is per russia's effort

to turn future generations against ukraine, united states and europe, because in their words, they are preparing for a large-scale war against nato. it will not end at dawn boss -- donbass. we have to be clear eyed in these negotiations. some of the parents have been threatened into giving up their kids. they were shipped to russia, tortured, forced to memorize propaganda, and told their country and their own families are the enemy. many of them are sent to the front lines of the russian war itself. imagine a child aged 16 being sent to the front lines to fight against their own homeland. mr. chairman, and the documentary "children in the fire," they show a child where the adults shock them under their fingernails and

genitals. i hate to even say that in public. it is so horrific. no child should ever have to endure that kind of barbarism. to me, it is good versus evil and this is people in its purest form -- evil in its purest form. i have met with many survivors who were sent to russian camps. they described the forced indoctrination in the torture. a father of five, i cannot imagine any of my children being kidnapped and indoctrinated against the united states of america. imagine how americans would feel if that happened to them. i am thankful for your leadership calling attention to this important issue. i agree that any piece must include the repatriation of these children. they must include the ironclad security agreement. we cannot -- repeat that we cannot repeat the mistakes of the past.

unfortunately the reporting out of moscow shows ukraine making concessions while putin has made none. that is no surprise. i think he will drag this out. he will continue his behavior, including the kidnapping and abuse of the children until pressures are placed on him and he's forced to be stopped. we must hold those responsible accountable and ensure this ends not only for ukraine's sake but for our own sake and for the world. russia's attempt to reengineer an entire generation is a battle plan. in their words they are preparing children for war against nato. this is a national security imperative. beyond that it is a moral imperative. this is a time all of us on both sides of the aisle for moral clarity. history will judge us by what we do here in now. it will judge is how we respond

today. again, mr. chairman, thank you for holding this hearing. i look forward to working with you and this committee. rep. fitzpatrick: thank you for your for allowing us to come here today. no matter what path we are taking here in an elected capacity, the media, advocate supporters, we can agree on one thing. none of us have any higher responsibility in any aspect of our lives than to take care of our kids. that is our single most important responsibility that we have as human beings. as we sit here today there are close to 20,000 ukrainian children who are living in fear, living in uncertainty, that are relying on us, people who have a position of authority to not forget them and not just to not forget them but to make sure we do everything in our power, everything in our capacity to bring them home to their

families. there is nothing accidental about russia's abduction of these ukrainian children. this is not a byproduct of war. is a calculated decision by vladimir putin. it is a state directed in one of terror this war has seen. ukrainian authorities, as was pointed out by senator graham, documented at a bare minimum 19,546. every one of those children has a name. every one of those children have dreams. they have families they love. they are living in fear. they have been forcibly taken from their families, transported to russian custody or territories. these abductions are not random or isolated. they are part of a deliberate effort that is specifically designed to do what vladimir putin has said he was going to do for years. to destroy ukraine by erasing their culture and erasing their next generation of young ukrainians. silence in the face of

deliberate people can never be an option for any of us -- deliberate evil. we have a moral obligation to make sure we take action here. that begins with sending the following message to the russian federation. if you continue to kidnap ukraine's children and if you refuse to return every single last one of them home, you will bear the full weight of being recognized for what you have become, a state sponsor of terror. the bipartisan bill put forth by senator graham and several of his colleagues is a necessary first step but it certainly cannot be the last. congress can and must come together without further delay to sanction every single element of vladimir putin's regime. every official, every institution, every entity complicit in russia's assault against ukraine must be held to account. and moreover, our adversaries must also be put on notice that if you enable the abduction of ukraine's children or bank water

slaughter of innocent ukrainian civilians, the united states will hold you accountable. i want to thank ukraine's ambassador to the united states for her partnership, for highlighting the urgency of this issue, of the staggering disregard which russia has for its human rights. mr. chair, mr. ranking member booker, we are reliving some of the most horrific part of history, some things that we thought were permanently relegated to history books. when germany invaded poland, a lot said it was a regional conflict, we don't want to promote or escalate. what does history -- what has history taught as? a problem that could have been nipped in the bud early to be the costliest and deadliest war in world history were we sent our own children to die on omaha beach. those are the lessons of history. the decisions of neville chamberlain and his successor winston churchill vastly different approaches that lead

to vastly different outcomes, and here we are today having that very same debate when history has already answered this question for us. when it comes to democracies, standing up against dictators, there are two choices, two options. there is peace through strength and war through weakness. there is no magical third option. history has recorded the decisions of our predecessors. history will now record our decisions and our actions here today, so let's make sure we make the next generation reading about our actions here today proud about the decisions we made, and that starts with standing up for every single last ukrainian child that has been abducted, never letting them leave our mind for one second, and work tirelessly and insist every last one of them come home to their families. i yield back. chair graham: thank you offer testifying. i know you have a lot to do. we will have the second panel. senator britt has been mentioned several times. she is original cosponsored of this legislation with senator klobuchar and blumenthal to make

russia a state sponsor of terrorism. sen. britt: thank you. i appreciate you holding this hearing. i hope this goes to the heart of every parent across our nation. everyone. think about your child being ripped from your arms. think about not knowing where your kids are on their birthday or milestones or tragic experiences. you just heard senator blumenthal, senator klobuchar, others talk about torture, talk about having to undergo surgery with no anesthesia, talked about having to denounce everything they know and love. terrified miles and miles away from their own parents. look. i think allowing this to occur as a nation goes against the very fabric of who we are as a country. think about that. and look, i join you in asking

our european allies to step up and to do the very same thing we are doing today. but we are here today because america must do something. and you cannot be a great nation if you are unwilling to do good. and there is no doubt that these kids need us. they need us to raise our voice. i want to thank the first lady for her tireless effort on this. senator graham, i want to thank you, senator blumenthal, senator klobuchar. i stand with you in bringing every one of these kids home and appreciate this. i think we have a moral obligation to keep this going until we get every last one of them back into their parents' arms. chair graham: thank you. well said by all. we have two votes. we will try to vote at the beginning of the second panel. captain there as well, so i wanted to ask you about legal justification. chair graham: senator mcconnell, i turned the floor to you for

some comments if you would like. sen. mcconnell: thank you, mr. chairman. very timely hearing. i want to offer my particular welcome to you, madam ambassador . in a town that is often consumed by its own metaphorical political warfare to pay attention to the harsh reality of your country's real-life war for survival has been a challenge. as i have said before, we should know enough history by now not to dismiss this is just a quarrel in a faraway country. between two people of whom we know nothing. that is what neville chamberlain

said before world war ii. and we know how a dismissive attitude to hitler's aggression toward yugoslavia turned out. again, there is a clear aggressor and a clear victim today. strategic dimensions are not in conflict with the west. mike then, we have an interest in the outcome of this war -- like then, we have an interest in the outcome of this work. the peace deal he would like to see to bring justice and accountability for their crime of tearing children away from their parents, and what is necessary to prevent putin from believing he can get away with this sort of thing again. thank you. chair graham: thank you, senator mcconnell, for all you have been

to help our friends in the ukraine. we have the second panel, and rather than butchering your names, i will let you introduce yourselves in terms of your actual name, but we have the ambassador of ukraine to the united states. welcome, madame ambassador. we have the head of bring kids back, a ukrainian initiative. we have a child protection expert and founder of save ukraine. we have legal and international law expert at the regional center for human rights. is it kateryna? close enough. and we have nathaniel, which i can pronounce. nathaniel from yale, who has been tracking this stuff and has found some amazing things. so why don't we lead off, if you don't mind, with a video?

that i think would be instructive to the committee and the world. ♪ >> [speaking another language]

♪ chair graham: thank you very much for the video.

madame ambassador, the floor is yours. amb. stefanishyna: dear chairman, dear ranking member schatz, dear leader, your excellencies, friends, it is my honor on behalf of ukraine to thank the united states senate and the committee of appropriations for organizing this hearing. it is also a distinct honor to present my testimony today not only as the ambassador of ukraine and represented of my country but also as a ukrainian, as a question, and as a mother of two children. the destiny of ukrainian boys and girls abducted by russia is unfortunately is not an abstract issue to me. it is a deliberate action conducted as a regular russian tactic of war. it is ukraine's and wider, knowledge that since the russian

full-scale aggression, thousands of ukrainian children have been abducted and forcibly trafficked from their homes separated from , their families, or removed from orphanages and foster care institutions in the temporarily occupied territories and also transferred to russia or belarus. these children were subjected not only to a forcible transfer but to a change of their names, their language, their identity, and even their citizenship. these elements alone have no other name but an instrument of war. humanitarian evacuation, not even close. as a scale which is under aggression, the ukrainian nation has not only been documenting and speaking and being vocal

about these crimes together with international partners and allies and volunteers. we mobilized to take every step we can to bring every innocent soul back to their families, back to their lands. but only with all of these efforts, it was only a small fraction of these children who were able to come back home. each child's return is a miracle of diplomacy, coordination, and extraordinary courage from their parents who traveled through multiple countries and war zones just to reclaim their sons and daughters back. but for every child who makes it home, many more remain missing, hidden or trapped in systems that are designed to keep them away from ukraine and from the truth of what has happened to them. as a mother, i cannot accept that any government would treat children as trophies of war or bargaining chips in geopolitical

negotiations. children are not assets to be moved on a geopolitical chessboard. they are human beings with names, souls, families, memories, and rights. their right to family life, to identity, culture, their own language and country is protected by international conventions that the whole democratic world has managed to accomplish. russia launched a war of its aggression not only four years ago but years ago. 11 it occupied part of our territories and decided it could claim our children as its own. as early as 2015, russia was already taking ukrainian children from occupied crimea by train to moscow. this was called a rescue evacuation operation. the children were taught that they are not ukrainians. they don't belong to anything,

they related to in their past lives. based on the evidence in the case is presented to the courts, on 2025, the european court of july 9, human rights confirmed that between 2014 and 2022, russia abducted ukrainian children and transferred them into unrelated russian families. the court also established that indoctrination of children is a state policy of the russian federation aimed at destroying ukrainian identity. as an ambassador, i may say it straightforwardly. the forced transfer and deportation of children from occupied territory is a grave breach of international humanitarian law and can constitute a war crime. bringing ukrainian children back shall not be subjected to discussion. it is a central element of any discussion about peace and future of relations with russia. be it u.s. or any other country around the globe. as of november 2025, the

until now, the justice ministry has officially confirmed 9,221 on record, which is verified, kids deported and under forced transfer from ukraine. around 20,000 records from state calculated by ukraine. but the numbers are way higher. we still do not know a full picture of the occupied territories. but we also know that the physical abduction is no longer the only tool of russian aggression. russia is reprogramming our children and placed in occupied schools, camps, social institutions, and even families under occupation. about 1.6 million ukrainian children are currently under

russian control in the occupied territories. russia does not give them a chance. there is no escape route. the kids are forced to obey the ideology. so at this point, we know there are at least 210 sites which are known as the indoctrination places across the occupied territories. we mobilized the efforts under the leadership of president zelenskyy with international players and domestic players under the umbrella of bring kids back, which we are doing everything to bring our kids back. we could get programs dedicated to this issue and are cooperating with international partners, but we cannot succeed alone. these children are scattered across a vast territory. we need to make our voices heard , and we are grateful to you helping us. based on the information provided, it is our duty to reach out to respectful members

of the senate with the next elements. it is our position that we require the unconditional return of all the children within the peace process. we also ask you to keep this issue on top of the international agenda to extend it as possible. we also think that the information you heard from the respective colleagues of yours but also you will hear from the testimonies provided by the ukrainian side leaves no doubt that russia is a sponsor of terrorism, a sponsor of people, and is -- evil, and a sponsor of sin. passing the legislative initiative by the senate will leave no room for russia to bypass the obligation for the unconditional return of all ukrainian children. thank you for this attention. chair graham: thank you. now we will hear from the head of bring kids back. will you state your name, please?

mr. maksymov: yes. honorable chairman, ranking member, senators, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. when speaking about the objection and identity erasure of ukrainian children, i feel a deep response ability because nothing in russia's war reveals its intent more clearly than what it does to ukrainian children. i am here on behalf of the bring kids back initiative that unites the efforts of the government agencies, civil society organizations, and international partners to trace, return, and we integrate every ukrainian child taken to russia. as a court needed platform, we have a comprehensive understanding of what ukrainian children endure in russian control. the actions of the russian federation to what ukrainian children are not isolated incidents or human decisions gone wrong. they are part of a deliberate strategy, estate policy of demographic engineering and identity erasure. child objections and industrial

scale reeducation i weaponized to reshape entire communities and redirect children's loyalty. pushing a generation away from home. and critically, today, many children do not need to be taken across the border to have their identities erased. in occupied towns and villages, the ukrainian language, history are erased from schools. and russia executes this strategy methodically. first, children are isolated. families, teachers, and friends are cut off, disoriented, and without support structures. then russia dismantles the identity. being ukrainian means something to hide. imposed russian citizenship designed to sever the legal and emotional path back. over time, this pressure

reshapes a child's sense of who they are and where they belong. finally, when identity is weakened, militarization begins. children enter state run programs where they trained with drones, practice assault drills, and absorb wartime ideology. by 18, that imposed citizenship becomes the basis for conscription to send them to fight the country they were taken from. this is the art of russia's design. isolate, reprogram, deploy. a 16-year-old told me she was once punished for speaking ukrainian. this is exactly why bring kids back exists, not only to bring the kids back but to reverse what russia tried to do and keep children from being lost twice, first to russia and then to trauma. senators, in the beginning of my

statement, i said nothing expresses the nature of russia's war against ukraine better or more clearly than what it does to our children. because of this work humanitarian evacuations, why did russia build a network of political reeducation camps? and if this war is about nato expansion, than white is russia rewriting the identity of two-year-olds? unless it needs new children to fight its future wars. a state that does this to children will not change course on its own. it has to be confronted directly, and it comes down to three things. first, sustained pressure on russia to disclose every child it holds. names, locations, legal status. without full transparency individual children disappear in a system that is designed to hide them. second, insistence on the unconditional return of these kids. no political trade-offs. no linkage to territory or nuclear power plant. any conditionality would legit if i the crime and invite your

petition. and third, continue support for ukraine on the bring kids back from her. reintegration and account ability. these would dismantle the system russia build and bring our children back home as themselves. there can be no durable peace while ukrainian children remain missing, reprogram, or trapped inside russia's administrative system. senators, through coordinated efforts under the bring kids back initiative, 1859 children have been returned back to ukraine. your leadership and your pressure directly determines how many more become whole. thank you for your support and for standing with us in this fight. thank you. chair graham: senator murray, would you like to say anything? ok. the gentleman from save ukraine. mr. kuleba: chairman graham, ranking member schatz,

distinguished members, thank you for the opportunity to come before you not only as the founder of save ukraine a father and a witness of the grievous crime of our century, the systematic objection, trafficking, and militarization of ukraine's children by the russian federation. through our save ukraine underground railroad built with coordination with the bring kids back initiative and president zelenskyy, we brought back more than 1000 children from russia and occupied territories. let me speak on their behalf. i give testimony in this historic moment of urgency, not experienced in generations but with as stalin's holodomor to erase ukraine. not just by bombs but by stealing our innocent children. our children continue to suffer a biblical plague conducted by a modern pharaoh.

i plead with you from the bottom of my heart to require russia to let our children go. many of you are grandparents. imagine your grandchild walking to school and being told you may no longer speak english, only russian. your american name is forbidden. from today, you will raise the russian flag, swear loyalty to russia and putin, and study from the books that say the united states never existed. imagine english books thrown in the fire. soldiers entering the room with rifles. teachers warning to speak english. and imagine your grandchild being sent to a summer camp where they crawl under barbed wire, throw grenades, and are taught that you their own family

are the enemy. and they are stripped of the identity, language, face, and family. this is a deliberate strategy to erase ukraine's future. and more than 1.6 million ukrainian children are now imprisoned behind russia's new iron curtain in ukraine. and they indoctrinated to believe that the u.s. and nato are the true enemies. save ukraine provides a full spectrum of services to children in need. we conduct dozens of dangerous rescue missions inside russia and the occupied territories across thousands of miles through the underground railroad. we provide holistic medical, trauma recovery and safe reintegration of children and families into new communities. after the rescue. save ukraine has documented testimonies of each of the 1,062 rescued children.

it is abundantly clear that russia's efforts are designed to hurt and destroy entire families . punishment for resistance is severe. today, streets in occupied territories are filled with russian soldiers and parents terrified to let their children go outside because the military presence is everywhere. those who report harassment and intimidation by russian soldiers, homes are rated at any hour of the day and night. children must keep their phones clean at all times, deleting messages, photos, anything that could reveal the ukrainian identity because a single image or conversation can lead to brutal consequences. military training is compulsory. rescued boys and girls describe being taught to throw grenades, crawl through trenches, assemble and disassemble kalashnikovs,

and storm mock buildings. during one so-called psychological test, a russian officer asked a boy, how do you feel about killing? do you feel. are you ready. when the boy refused to answer, the soldiers threatened him. you will serve on submarine. a mother was told during an excruciating child birth that she would only receive a necessary c-section to save her life if she accepted a russian passport. she reluctantly agreed and then she was told the only way she could take the baby home was if she was enlisted as russian on his birth certificate. one boy told us the hardest thing for him wasn't being taken , it was watching his friend

die. russian forces from the message from a crimean soldier, they ripped out his teeth and eyelids, cut off his finger. he did not survive the torture. when he was report said he died of a blood clot. the truth is that they killed him. the longer russia wages war against ukraine, the more sophisticated the effort -- the threat comes to the ukrainian children. the age of military prescription moves. this committee's recognition of the urgency of the situation. we ask in renewed effort for russia to return all stolen ukrainian children and ensure their release to the families in ukraine. we urgent to support our efforts to back -- rescue many more

children, thank you for your leadership and for continuing to stand with the children of ukraine. thank you. you can find this book near you, this is stories of 50 rescued kids from the more than 200 of north america. >> distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. if there is to be a lasting peace we must rescue the children. in march, his excellency said the return of ukrainian abducted children would serve as a confidence building measure before peace negotiations. since that moment the russian benefit -- federation that they have repatriated only 20

ukrainian children. the rest remain under russian control in institutions. this concerns at least 700 -- 780 ukrainian children. yet, in the latest report, they claim 170 30,000 children in russia. russia insisted evacuated ukrainian kids. when the show you a few photos. these are sisters abducted from occupied crimean peninsula in 2015 and sent to the republic of ada gaia. i have been following them for 11 years and know that these kids are raised as russian citizens in the foster family of the enemy state.

there are over 1000 children abducted from crimea being considered evacuated on the international law. what. thousands more in 2022 ending up in 57 russian regions under similar circumstances. it clearly regulates the evacuation of children it requires russia to take all visible steps to reunite families. russia must submit a least -- a list of evacuated children to the icrc. given the exceptional nature of evacuation, russia must regularly assess for keeping children and return them immediately once the necessity ends. russia has fulfilled none of these obligations. no list, no assessment, no military repatriation.

instead, a abduction, forcible passport is asian. this led to human rights recognize russia in violation of its international obligations. it is also important to know that the presidential order number 986 signed by putin, repatriation of ukrainian children was issued two months after icc arrest warrants for war crimes. impacts of this order remains unpunished. the results of the specifically established in the government. statements claim all ukrainian children in russia that children's whereabouts are known

are false. my organization documented 100 65 reeducation camps that ukrainian children. these camps exist in occupied territories in russia and belarus and in north korea. in this photo, you can see from the occupied alaska region and in this 1, 16-year-old from occupied -- there were sent in north korea 9000 kilometers from home. in this camp children are taught to destroy japanese militaries and met korean veterans who in 19 68, attacked the united states killing and wounding nine american soldiers. militarization from the trauma

-- causes trauma and 78 -- at 17 the receive draft notices to the russian army. to make ukrainians kill each other. in september of 2025 the united nations committee on economic social and cultural rights recognizes actions as force culture assimilation. children who resist are labeled terrorists and sent to psychiatric institutions for forced medical treatment. distinguished members of the subcommittee i'm grateful for your every initiative including sanctions and also support for those efforts. recently boko haram abducted 300 girls and boys. russian you -- north korea will

see how determined there be to hold perpetrators accountable and prevent this in the future not only in ukraine. that is why amnesty agreement is not an option for us. it's what russia must immediately and unconditionally return all abducted ukrainian children through international and independent mechanism. we cannot recognize occupied territories as russian as it would undermine international legal order peace and security, making us complicit. chr. graham: thank you very much. >> i want to start with my heartfelt thanks to you chairman graham. and to all the people who made this pivotal hearing possible.

not on behalf of yale and not beyond -- on behalf of harvard. that's a joke. in the news expressed are my own. what i want to do today is two things. i want to tell a story of how u.s. assistance has been essential in this case and i want to give you facts about what we found in the humanitarian research lab over our 3.5 years of investigation. we were called in in december of 2022 as part of a state department program, we were given the mission to investigate reports that russia was systematically taking kids for areas they were occupying following full-scale invasion. frankly i initially didn't think we could complete the request but we had a break in the case which was mayors and local

officials inside russia were taking selfies with the kids and they left their location settings on bird -- on. based on that breakthrough, we were able to combined together very high-resolution satellite imagery and open-source intelligence methods to assess at least 6000 children and since the start of 2023 had been temporarily or permanently taken to so-called patriotic reeducation camps inside the occupied territories in russia itself. these facilities extend from the black sea across siberia close to japan and alaska in some cases they are to kyiv or moscow. in 2023, building on that number , the international criminal court with assistance from us helped indict president putin

and issued an arrest warrant for him. we believe that the actual number of children that russia has taken in our internal estimate is closer to 35,000. you're part of the 19,500 number. we think that's actually low. that number is made up of four distinct groups that are spread out across russian families and homes. those groups are kids in the camps, kids who have been taken from the battlefield after the parents were killed. kids who were taken from filtration camps after the fall of mary you pull in the fourth group i want to go into on here are kids from institutions that have been basically hidden in plain sight on russian adoption websites in the russian databases as if they were russian orphans. we have identified at least 300

14 children that have been unlawfully placed with families. we presented this is a dirty council on december of 2024. the breakthrough came from one of our analysts noticing wallpaper of all things, a humanitarian research lab analyst had seen basically the child in a photograph standing in front of teal and yellow wallpaper posing as suppose russian orphan. going back the analyst seen the wallpaper before and a new story about a group of children from ukraine taken to russia that showed an identical backdrop. the analyst on our team deduced russia was hiding these children in front of us. checking other photos we found a pattern. that led to understanding that other children some based on satellite imagery were transported to ukraine on one of president putin's own planes and held in russian facilities led

to truly chilling realization. half the children identified were placed in these databases. with the limited time i have left i want to say our funding has been terminated at humanitarian research lab by the state department and we are running out of gas and running out of rope in about four to six weeks. i want to say to all of you on behalf of our team it has been the honor of a lifetime to serve in this mission regardless of whether we get to continue doing it. thank you senator. chr. graham: thank you, we will have five-minute rounds and thank you all for very compelling testimony. mr. raymond will try to keep you up and running here. to understand what were talking about, you are confident that russia has put up for adoption ukrainian children being masqueraded as russian children.

mr. raymond: high confidence, the highest confidence. chr. graham: these camps you talk about run the breadth of russian territory, how many are there, do you know? mr. raymond: our initial estimate was one hundred 10, it turned out to be 210 approximately. we found more since then the 210 with a high confidence. chr. graham: what's the purpose of these camps? mr. raymond: three purposes. to indoctrinate, militarize and isolate. chr. graham: and all of these children going to these camps are ukrainian is not correct. mr. raymond: that is not correct. there are three groups of camps. ukrainian only, those are mixed camps and it really differs by age group and a third of those are specifically military training camps that sometimes are ukrainian union -- only. chr. graham: there could be up

to 35,000 ukrainian children kidnapped by russia. mr. raymond: that's our internal estimate right now. chr. graham: ok. how many children have you reunited with their ukrainian families? >> more than 1000 children have been returned to the relatives. chr. graham: we won't go into great detail but you're able to do that because when one child is returned they give you permission. >> through the missions we provide and we link them to our reputation program. we offer rehabilitation and trauma therapy children witnessing and telling us information. chr. graham: which leads you to more children. mr. kuleba: yes. at camps, military academies. chr. graham: this underground railroad you describe, is that

fairly dangerous work? mr. kuleba: it's very dangerous. i cannot tell you -- i can tell you privately but we are not telling a lot about this chr. graham: got you, god bless you. madam ambassador, appreciate you being here. make sure i understand, whatever negotiations are going on about territory, the size of the ukrainian military, nato, no nato. the children it's a policy of the position of the ukrainian government this is nonnegotiable is that correct. amb. stefanishyna: you are correct. all children who have been abducted are subjected to unconditional return and jurisdiction of ukraine. chr. graham: do you have any dialogue with the russian federation regarding any plan to repatriate? amb. stefanishyna:

at this point you have seen there has been a discussion in geneva and last week in florida. these discussions build around a specific plan of action which includes the return of ukrainian children. however the discussion is still continuing. chr. graham: is a part of the negotiating process? amb. stefanishyna: at this point we have created a number of international equities which allowed the return of ukrainian children but the numbers are really small. some of the instruments were used also to make sure the first lady of the united states is able to make some announcements. this was used with our partners but also mostly the return of the children through initiatives on the leadership. chr. graham: as russia admitted to certificate numbers. amb. stefanishyna: we believe one of the meetings in istanbul when ukraine presented the number 300 kids for the

beginning of the dialogue russia denied the very fact that there is such thing as abducted kids but we believe the very fact that we hear the announcement of the return of ukrainian kids with the support of russia as a testimony of the very fact. chr. graham: how many children have been returned working with russia? amb. stefanishyna: at this point we can only judge by informal numbers. we know from the initiatives and testimonies you have but i will leave it to maxum who has the exact numbers collected. chr. graham: i understand the underground i'm trying to figure out if russia cooperating at all in terms of defining the scope of the problem and helping return children. thank you all very much. >> thank you chairman and thank you to all the test fires. mr. raymond can you walk us through what happened in terms of the contract termination when

you were informed, how it got reversed and specifically what happened to the data file and how you sort of saved it? mr. raymond: on february 27th we were informed that exemption request by the now-defunct bureau of stabilization operations to preserve us is essential was denied. that day we lost access to our database. that database had 13 large case files which contributed to the four indictments by the icc against russian high command on attacks on civilian power generation and infrastructure as well as kids files. those included for each kid 30 to 40 page dossiers. we could not access it that morning. for several days the state department and our team and our

prime implementer that we reported it to were trying to find the location of those case files which also included direct support to the office of prosecutor general on specific homicides which were not made public performed with department of justice support. we are trying to find basically the joke was dude where's my data. sen. schatz: you have the data now. mr. raymond: we do and in our reinstatement we were able to transfer that two euro pole. sen. schatz: was the annual amount you receive from the federal government. mr. raymond: it varied but it was a 5 million. sen. schatz: you're saying the status of your contract renewal is still in question. mr. raymond: we have been formally terminated as of june.

we are no longer implementer. sen. schatz: who is going to do that work? mr. raymond: i don't sen. schatz: know sir. sen. schatz:do you believe the state department has a plan and is not telling you what you believe they don't have a mr. raymond: plan. mr. raymond:we met with colleagues at state department and had a good discussion. sen. schatz: of the four categories of abducted children are you able to break it down by percentage as an institution with a russian family, do you know or you at this point still guessing. mr. raymond: i'll try to keep this as not wonky as possible. for two of the groups we have a fraction, a numerator and denominator. the number we have seen in the number we think it exists. for two of the groups we don't have a denominator. we don't know how many there

could be paid for the battlefield kids, we don't know what the total data set could be. the institution kids and the ones in camps we are beginning to get to a denominator but we don't have the percentage answer. sen. schatz: obviously no one has fidelity, that's what the work is all about. i'm just trying to get a sense from most of the kids in institutions or most of them not? can you give me a sense of these 35,000 kids how many are in camps or institutions versus families are elsewhere? mr. raymond: we can order them 123 four. the majority of the kids have been definitely or temporarily in camps. that's the plurality. the second group would be the institutional kids. the third group is likely the battlefield kids and fourth is filtration. on third and fourth i could be wrong. sen. schatz: as it relates to the continuation of the work whether it's your organization

or some other organization with state department itself could you please correspond with the committee on a relatively regular basis on the status of those negotiations. senator rubio, secretary rubio has conveyed to us this remains a priority where the rubber hits the road. we've had a number of tremendous challenges. sometimes we were even the secretary is not tracking but some of these things are happening or not happening. liking to serve as a convene or and communicators so we don't miss a beat. and preferably the people were doing is excellent work continue to do it. sen. murray: thank you mr. chairman i'm glad this hearing is being held to help shine a light on one of the darkest

aspects of russia's bloody and unjustified war in ukraine. thousands of ukrainian children you've talked about have been kidnapped by russia since this terrible war began. they have been abducted from their homes, ripped out of their parents arms, we've -- they've been sentenced we are to force reeducation programs, military training camps and worse. the horror of this crime is hard to fathom. that is why it resulted in putin being charged for war crimes by the international criminal court and it is the height of barbarity. i really appreciate all of the witnesses today joining us and sharing your very powerful testimony and talking about the steps that we can take to secure justice for this ongoing atrocity and provide healing for the victims and survivors. unfortunately we simply cannot have this conversation without talking about the fact that as ranking member just mentioned, earlier this year the trump administration abruptly cut off

funding to help attractive victims of russian kidnapping and deliver justice and it's noted already that data was almost all lost and delayed being sent to the proper authorities. that was absolutely senseless. so today there is still no ongoing u.s. funding for this specific work. i wish we had the trump administration officials here to explain why that program was terminated and to talk but efforts in the effort. that really is inexplicable to me. we have also seen the trump administration put forward drafts of so-called peace plans would read more like russian wish lists then serious plans. we need more from this administration, we needed to stand firm by our allies in ukraine and stand firm for basic principles like accountability and justice, especially for something as fundamental as

kidnapping children. that's what we push back against careless cuts like the one just talked about. we need to restore the bipartisan tradition that hold -- uphold our values and support our allies and strengthen our leadership. if we want to peace deal to end this war we have to make sure putin understands our resolve to stand by our allies will not waiver, war crimes cannot be swept under the rug and he cannot get a better deal by walking away from the table and waiting us out. mr. chairman i am pleased we are having this hearing and to be here with so many others who are sending the message in a bipartisan way with our voices and i hope we can send the same message with our laws as well. the restores funding to help identify track and return victims of kidnapping. and restores the support so many other worry the ngos that have a

long history of bipartisan support and maintains robust support to ukraine at this very critical moment. with that, i wanted to ask can you talk about the work you do to return ukrainian children to their families and how governmental funding and coordination helps expand your ability to do so. mr. kuleba: thank you so much senator. we build our system beginning from the investigators team and then as a mentioned before after rescue -- after rescuing these kids we provide more information about kids who stayed in occupied territories. and the very often these kids whose parents were killed or arrested or disappeared, we have

a limited time just to extract them from the territory. and rebuild holistic system for the research, rescue rehabilitation and reintegration. we have centers with more than 800 beds for both families and children and for unaccompanied minors. many children have draft notice. it's a huge risk and we have kids who have been rescued from russian military academies even from the russian army and they are witnessing about war crimes and the testimony how they have been taken forcibly taken to the russian army. thousands of ukrainian children and many of them who when taken

forcibly conscripted and now fighting with us. and that's why it's so important for us to find these kids and rescue them. every six -- sixth captured soldiers were in our prisons from occupied territories. the young adults who have been brainwashed and who had been forcibly conscripted and they must fight because if not they will be jailed and killed. sen. murray: i can even imagine. what you said in time is really critical. if you take two-year-olds in 11 years later that's been their life they don't member much else. rehabilitation must be extremely difficult. so in time is critically important. it's why funding is so important. i am out of time but i did want to ask what is the single greatest obstacle that the

united states faces in trying to compel russia to return these abductor children. >> thank you for the excellent question. for the russians to return the kids it is the same as testifying to committing a crime. every single child returned as been a victim of war crime. they can tell what happened to them, law-enforcement authorities would happened to peers of theirs. what happened to their friends and family members. so that is very counter instinctive for that situation and the witnesses to testify against them. another huge obstacle that i think any effort or negotiated effort they face is they systematically try to downplay the crime. despite hundreds and hundreds of names that have been cemented by

ukraine from the state of qatar to the vatican there were many of them there have never been the return of 20 kids even. the biggest number was around a dozen while they have thousands. so i think those two things, that goes against the very logic for them to release the witnesses to their crime and also they would be trying to do everything they can to downplay. sen. murray: thank you very much. sen. shaheen: thank you for holding this critical hearing and thank you to all of our witnesses for the very important testimony. it's very clear that vladimir putin is trying to wipe ukraine, its culture and history off the map. senator graham i hope the send moves very quickly to pass your legislation on the russia state terrorism bill should address

this issue of children who have been kidnapped it's now time for congress to act. ambassador, there have been reports of the united states, is considering de facto recognizing russian control of her routine ukrainian territories. i hope these reports are not correct. because i think this would invite further russian aggression. but can you talk about what the consequences of that kind of recognition would mean for the ukrainian children that we are talking about. >> thank you senator for this question it's not a secret there was a 20 point plan which was on the table for the discussion which eventually evolved to a 90 point plan after geneva and had been further discussed and in florida last weekend and have been discussed in moscow by steve witkoff.

special envoy to president trump. to president putin. so at this point, it is clear and official understanding that whatever this discussion about territory is not yet decided. but even if we are speaking about the cease-fire or stopping on the existing line, this is also a condition that every person that's a child or a grown up in the occupied territory to have to have the right to leave the occupied territory and reunite back with their family with their country and this is not something that is under discussion or negotiation, whatever the settlement will be even if it's just a cease-fire. at this point, being in occupation it's also an activity were people have no choice whether to stay in the occupation or flee to russia.

so, ukraine has the right to accept every ukrainian from the occupied territories. thank you. sen. shaheen:. i'm not sure maybe mr. raymond this question is best for you. but why is accountability for war crimes or perhaps why is the accountability for war crimes and the release of all people unjustly held so important for peace to be just and lasting? >> thank you for this excellent question. i'll start and maybe they can build off something. as a lawyer i can tell there is no fair and just peace without accountability processes for those who committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. it is needed not only for

ukrainian children and ukraine as a state. it is also needed for the international community to maintain that existing legal order than to avoid the reputation of all atrocities in parts and also should be noted that it also needed for russians to avoid this sentiment and to avoid the removal of all this crimes and of all of these atrocities in the future and ukraine or other parts of europe. russians are militarizing children. preparing them for aggression. we just cannot stop all these processes. we cannot tell the prosecutor the icc to stop investigation. it's impossible. it's also impossible to stop the

process of the creation of a special tribe you should against ukraine. it was already launched. that is why hope in the near future we will see the victory of justice. sen. shaheen: i was struck by the number of the people the first panel who mention the history of europe and what happened with germany and adolf hitler and the repetition that we are seeing now of those kinds of events. mr. raymond did you want to add anything. mr. raymond: the issue here is unique specific to children. underneath the geneva convention there's all the special protected status and it means children cannot be treated as hostages. so this is not just about ukraine is about the future of all children today and tomorrow. if we give the green light as the united states to treat kids like they are pows or hostages, about special protected status is gone and it is catastrophic. sen. shaheen: i would like to

ask one more very brief question. because freedom house has documented the lukashenko regime in belarus is complicit in the kidnapping of ukrainian children. can anyone speak to what we know about the scope of the lukashenko regime's involvement? ms. rashevska: my organization cooperated with freedom house so it's an honor to testify on behalf. as was the role of the lukashenko regime and the displacement in belarus since 1921 till 2024, we have documented 2219 ukrainian children who were displaced to camps and other facilities in belarus. after all the hearings last year

in the united states. after all of these sanctions imposed by those who organized these reeducation processes in belarus, we see only 100 50 ukrainian children in belarus this year. it means that it had a frozen effect at least in one great example, it is about the mayor, he was put under sanctions and now there are no ukrainian children. sen. shaheen:. thank you so much. chr. graham: senator murphy. sen. murphy: thank you very much senator graham. mr. raymond thank you for the great work you and your colleagues do. i'm very proud to have you doing that work in new haven connecticut. appreciate you being here telling us. an important story. i wanted to build on some of senator shaheen's questions.

i appreciate you taking head on these discussions that are happening around so-called peace plan. frankly as you know many republicans and democrats in the senate were caught off guard by a plan that looks to sell out ukraine's interests in the name of an illusory piece that would only be for the short term. i want to ask you be more directly, part of the draft plan would require ukraine to give up territory and -- that it now controls, areas that are not under russian control right now. does your government think that this would be fair for ukraine to hand territory to russia that russia does not currently control? i'll try to be as precise as i

can to the extent that i can given that there is a very intensive face of negotiating and we fully submit to the tactics the present and the team is narrowing the discussion and so at this point nothing in the plan which had been discussed in geneva which involved a 19 point plan speaks and has the word concession, giving the territories to russia so what the discussion is about all the other points and as you know from the statement from the russian president yesterday, this is not the issue which has been discussed over to find a solution so those discussions are ongoing. of course it is not fair, this is not something that you can call justice. this is not something you can call complete and we were able to withstand the largest military power with the

ukrainian army. and with the support of the whole world the moral support the financial support and military support but it's only because we were able and backed up we were able to withstand. this is not going anywhere. this is the basis but we are confident that we should give a chance to every effort which could lead to less and the atrocities which are faced by ukrainian people every night. sen. murphy: it would be a moral abomination for russia to end up with any ukrainian territory even worse whether discussions are underway or given territory that russia does not have any military control over today. i appreciate your strong statement. a really simple question for you has ukraine committed war crimes? madam ambassador? i hope it's an easy answer. amb. stefanishyna: one thing

which i can guarantee 100% that ukraine had 100% access from all international monitors and organizations from every party across the aisle, from the european union or international red cross. we have granted the access to prisoners of war from -- we have got them. we have granted the access to every facility to include the territory of the region which is occupied. the first thing after military operation was concluded international monitors were granted access to that. so we have nothing to hide. we've been given access to every monitor who can do the fact-check. sen. murphy: has russia committed war crimes. amb. stefanishyna: it's not according we are not judges, we don't have a jury here but this was the most documented war and i've seen it with my own eyes. the bodies of those people and i

talk to a priest who said he was not allowed by the russian army to collect the bodies and he had to go overnight to collect those bodies and bury them in a massive grave just behind his church. this is something you cannot un-see and hear. justice has no time limits and the justice is unlimited to ending the war. sen. murphy: the topic is a war crime, one of many that they've committed. this peace plan envisions a joint amnesty for war crimes for russia and for the ukraine which of course would end up being a get out of jail free card for vladimir putin who has committed these crimes at a dizzying rate including the separation and abduction of children. let me finish by asking yes or no answers from the panelists. do you believe it would be a

good idea for any peace plan to involve giving vladimir putin or the russian government in unity from the war crimes that they have committed? just yes or no. ms. rashevska: not at all. it doesn't correspond to the existing practice. no amnesty on the international armed conflict. >> no. >> no and it's not in the plan. >> my answer is the former commissioner presents who participated in this negotiation. negotiators russian. it's no outcomes we support strong support for usa. we need your support and actions. >> no.

>> thank you mr. chair. >> i think that's all of our members. we will wrap it up, thank you all very much for coming. the purpose of the hearing was to focus on the children. most everybody understands the pain associated with losing a child. and were trying to make sure that however this war ends that the children are brought back to their families is the number one goal of the hearing. as to how this war ends. i don't think any plans will be forced on ukraine. i hope we will be able to talk with our folks and i think you have and talk with the russians and safely bring this war to an end. if you believe ukraine's going to be a russian soldier living in a world that doesn't exist. if you believe russia is going

to cave tomorrow that doesn't exist. nato, all that stuff has reported how big the military is but there's nothing more important right now than trying to get these kids back. and, learn from 2014. whatever we did in 2014 did not work. they invaded ukraine and it was a pathetic attempt to deter future aggression. at every turn we had a chance to prevent this invasion, a preinvasion sanctions to provocative. give ukraine something other than goggles and blankets, to provocative. we are where we are in the goal is to get this war promptly and justly to the extent we can and mainly to make sure this doesn't happen again. that russia will not be allowed to invade a third time because they will be taking on security guarantees that are incredibly robust than include us in european allies and to the

ukrainian army. and i hope to make the ukrainian army very strong it's already very strong but keep it strong. i didn't come here to talk about how to end the war. you can accept and what you cannot accept. i came here to tell the world we cannot end this war until the children are together. whether everyone gets prosecutor not is very seldom does that happen in any war. what's unconscionable to end this war. around the world trying to get these kids back. thank you all. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025]